Drowning in potions

[Mark100]

Hi there,

i*m pretty new to the game and i managed to make a production of red, green and blue potions for my laboratories. I just use belts, splitters and yellow inserters actually but my problem is the different speed potions are produced, i often have accumulatons on the belts up to the point the belts are clogged.

I fear a bit the topic circuit because it's pretty complicated in my case. I know the logistic circuit is just about smart inserters and smart chests, but what to do with all the potions sitting on the belt and blocking ? Or should i better use the logistic network(which is with robots, right ?

I had an idea to use a logistic circuit and use smart chests at the assembly and at the other end of the belt at the laboratory and make conditions for the chests. then the belt would be empty and the chests would have the number of potions i want. BUT: don't i need to add the assemblies to the circuit then too ? Is this working at all ?

[Boogieman14]

As long as you're just using belts, those are pretty much self-limiting. I just let them fill up the belts (red and green are cheap anyway). This does of course require having each colour on its own belt lane, but that's easy enough to accomplish (if you can't figure it out with proper inserter placement, just feed them onto a combined belt from both sides)

[Gus_Smedstad]

It's not too clear why you're even asking the question. Normally, if you have a backlog, that's not a big deal. It just means that the belt is full, and it will resume production when you use up the ones already on the belt.

My best guess is that you have a problem because you're putting the science packs on a single belt. Maybe even in a single lane of a belt. If you do that, then having an excess of red science packs will block the blue science packs further up the belt.

So don't do that. Only put 1 type of science pack in each lane. Dedicate one belt to red and green, and one belt to blue (which will later be blue and purple).

[Mark100]

As long as you're just using belts, those are pretty much self-limiting. I just let them fill up the belts (red and green are cheap anyway). This does of course require having each colour on its own belt lane, but that's easy enough to accomplish (if you can't figure it out with proper inserter placement, just feed them onto a combined belt from both sides)

Well actually i did not want to tear down the whole thing, and i don't have that much space. Thats why i thought about logistic circuits and log. networks, maybe if robots can help me. Thats why i wondered if i can add assemblies to the green -wire-net, so if there is no work in a assembly the circuit would know that and fill a potion in.

[Boogieman14]

Use a smart inserter to take stuff out of the assembler and set it to the desired limit.

[Mark100]

Use a smart inserter to take stuff out of the assembler and set it to the desired limit.

You mean that i use a condition like: when smart chest has 50 potions stop unloading assembly ? But i need the smart chest then also, if this works at all.

[Gus_Smedstad]

I think you should post a screen shot of your current lab setup so we can see the details of your problem.

[Mark100]

I more want to know which system would be the best here, roboport with provider and requester-chest or just a logistic circuit with smart inserters and smart chests ?

[Boogieman14]

The best system here is basically what you already have: belts, just a bit fewer of them. Also, you don't need to feed blues in from both sides. The screenshot Gus posted is basically what I us as well, although I usually run the belts in a loop around the labs, like so:
(don't mind the beacons next to the alien pack assembler, I was just messing around there, this is an older game )

[Mark100]

Lol not a prob here, messing around i know so well
When i look at your systems they so much better, i think i will build up my research labs from the scratch. Strange, it costs nothing and is done in a blink but anyhow i thought i can keep it like it is and just change a part of it.
Well i find another part in the game then, to try out the logistic circuit-thing. Thanks all !

[Gus_Smedstad]

Splitters can be really handy for making sure you distribute resources evenly, so if you have a shortage of something like copper, everything gets a share instead of one assembly line getting everything and assembly lines downstream getting nothing. However, that is not what you want within an assembly line, or in this case with a lab complex. What you really want is for Lab #1 to be filled first, and lab #2 and later to only get stuff if lab #1 has everything it wants. A simple belt passing everything by the labs in order is what you want, not a system of splitters.

As Boogieman said, you want a much simpler system, with fewer belts.

I do like recirculating systems, but I only implement them if the items can be used elsewhere. For example, if my module factories can't use an Advanced Circuit, I like moving the Advanced Circuit on to something else, or if the module factory is the last thing in line, I'll put the circuit back at the start, so everything that might use it gets another chance at it. However, I don't do it for science packs, since there's only one thing that uses science packs: labs. Recirculating the science packs doesn't do anything but stir the backlog buffer, because the packs aren't going anywhere else.

Now, I can imagine wanting to minimize the belt backlog for science packs. If all the labs are busy, rather than build up blue packs until the belt is full, it'd be nice to shut off production immediately, right? I've never actually done that for science, but I can imagine setting up such a system using a smart chest at the end of the belt. If the belt feeds into that chest, and the last lab takes from that chest, you could shut down blue science production if there are any blue science packs waiting in that chest, unused. You'd wire the chest to the inserters feeding the blue science pack assemblers. Viola, no backlog, but of course no buffer either if you have a future shortage.

[MalcolmCooks]

Now, I can imagine wanting to minimize the belt backlog for science packs. If all the labs are busy, rather than build up blue packs until the belt is full, it'd be nice to shut off production immediately, right? I've never actually done that for science, but I can imagine setting up such a system using a smart chest at the end of the belt. If the belt feeds into that chest, and the last lab takes from that chest, you could shut down blue science production if there are any blue science packs waiting in that chest, unused. You'd wire the chest to the inserters feeding the blue science pack assemblers. Viola, no backlog, but of course no buffer either if you have a future shortage.

In that case what you want to do, is put the buffer chest(s) before the belt to the labs. Then when the inserters detect that a suitable buffer size has been reached, they shut off production of science packs. If a particular research is taking up packs faster than you can produce them, then you still have the additional packs in the buffer. I use this kind of system a lot, to precisely match production to consumption, and it's a lot easier to implement with the introduction of comparators.

P.S. I can't believe that until reading this thread, I hadn't thought of feeding the labs with belts I use chests with three labs around them, and splitters to evenly distribute the science packs between each group, like this:

labs.PNG (600.47 KiB) Viewed 11041 times

Problem is of course, that it's not as easily expandable as belts

[Gus_Smedstad]

In that case what you want to do, is put the buffer chest(s) before the belt to the labs. Then when the inserters detect that a suitable buffer size has been reached, they shut off production of science packs.

That does the opposite of what he wants. If I understand him correctly, he's unhappy with the buffer that's already on the belts. If you put a chest before the belt, you're just making the buffer bigger. Again, if I'm clear on his intent, he wants no buffer, he wants to produce only as many packs as he's actually using, and no more.

If that's the goal, you put the chest at the very end. Or if you're being careful, you put a chest in front of each lab (or set of labs, multiple labs can draw from one chest, as you illustrate) and stop production when they all have at least 1 pack surplus.

[MalcolmCooks]

With a buffer you are still only going to produce as much as you consume, you just have an extra stockpile in case of shortfall like you said might be a problem.

[Gus_Smedstad]

While true, I get the impression that the buffer bothered him. And arguably a buffer has an expense, in that you're producing stuff that you're not using right now, even if you might use it in the future. If the items in the buffer are relatively expensive and time consuming to produce, that's an argument for limiting the buffer as much as possible.

While you can't use science packs elsewhere, the materials to make the unused blue and purple ones might be wanted elsewhere. Depending.

Something like this, if not this exactly, came up recently in my Marathon mod game. Which being a Marathon game, had much more expensive components. I was struggling with a severe shortage of basic green electronics, which is not something that happens in vanilla, and I was over-producing advanced circuits, and using up electronics I needed elsewhere to do it. So I went through some hoops to try and curtail buffers with advanced circuits in them. I ended with a combination of recirculation plus some things to detect that I had excess and temporarily halted advanced circuit production.

I had a smart chest at the end of the recirculation loop which slowly doled out advanced circuits to the start of the belt distributing advanced circuits. Unloading was intentionally slower than loading, and if there were any advanced circuits in the chest, it shut off advanced circuit production. It definitely helped, allowing some of those basic green electronics to go to blue science pack production.

[ratchetfreak]

In that case what you want to do, is put the buffer chest(s) before the belt to the labs. Then when the inserters detect that a suitable buffer size has been reached, they shut off production of science packs.

That does the opposite of what he wants. If I understand him correctly, he's unhappy with the buffer that's already on the belts. If you put a chest before the belt, you're just making the buffer bigger. Again, if I'm clear on his intent, he wants no buffer, he wants to produce only as many packs as he's actually using, and no more.

If that's the goal, you put the chest at the very end. Or if you're being careful, you put a chest in front of each lab (or set of labs, multiple labs can draw from one chest, as you illustrate) and stop production when they all have at least 1 pack surplus.

unless you set to turn off the assembly when the buffer has anything in it.

though that'll cause massive fluctuations and large amount of downtime between detecting empty and building enough to start having something in the buffer