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[MOD 0.12.x] Marathon 1.0.3

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 11:15 pm
by Afforess
Type: Mod
Name: Marathon
Description: For the players who approve of the fact that Rome wasn't built in a day.
License: MIT License
Version: 1.0.3
Release: 2016-04-14
Tested-With-Factorio-Version: 0.12.30
Category: Gameplay
Tags: Game Balance
Download-Url: https://github.com/Afforess/Marathon/re ... _1.0.3.zip
Website: https://github.com/Afforess/Marathon
License
Description
Version history
Plans and Future Development

Re: [MOD 0.11.x - 0.12.x] Marathon

Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:39 am
by bgirard
Thanks for keeping this up to date!

Re: [MOD 0.11.x - 0.12.x] Marathon

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:38 am
by Afforess
bgirard wrote:Thanks for keeping this up to date!
No Problem! I wanted to keep the Marathon dream alive.

Re: [MOD 0.11.x - 0.12.x] Marathon

Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:37 pm
by Ohz
I just want to say that I cannot play Factorio without the Marathon Mod anymore. It is so cool, so rough, so real hardcore in my opinion. I play and replay with differents map settings since 6 months.
It forces you to build a whole burning factory before to move to electricity, I apreciate this.

Thanks a lot.

Re: [MOD 0.11.x - 0.12.x] Marathon

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:12 pm
by Afforess
Ohz wrote:I just want to say that I cannot play Factorio without the Marathon Mod anymore. It is so cool, so rough, so real hardcore in my opinion. I play and replay with differents map settings since 6 months.
It forces you to build a whole burning factory before to move to electricity, I apreciate this.

Thanks a lot.
Absolutely, neither can I. I highly recommend RSO + Marathon for the ultimate difficulty.

Re: [MOD 0.11.x - 0.12.x] Marathon

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:01 pm
by aka13
What are the suggested recourse settings for this mod? Do you recommend using resource overhaul?

Re: [MOD 0.11.x - 0.12.x] Marathon

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:44 pm
by Afforess
aka13 wrote:What are the suggested recourse settings for this mod? Do you recommend using resource overhaul?
I use RSO because I like difficult games, and want to be forced to use trains. Marathon works fine alone, or in combination with most other mods. I have a few other mods I use for fun, and have never had any conflicts.

If you do hit a conflict, let me know, and I will see if I can patch / workaround it.

Re: [MOD 0.11.x - 0.12.x] Marathon

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:23 am
by aka13
Yes, indeed, I am 60h + in a game with RSO and Marathon, and I must say that this is brilliant.

1 Suggestion though - since vanilla medium and big electric poles use plates instead of wires most of the time they are easier and faster to craft then the small ones. I think it deserves some sort of a rebalance.

Re: [MOD 0.11.x - 0.12.x] Marathon

Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:07 pm
by imajor
Hi Guys,

I want to start a new game with Marathon and RSO, and I don't want to waste several hours before I would realize that the mod is not active at all. So I downloaded 0.5.3 for the 0.12.3 version of the game, and in the mods menu I can see the Marathon mod there, I enabled it, but when I start a new game, I don't see any change. The costs of research (at least a few which I checked) is the same as in the vanilla game. Aren't those supposed to be higher? Or the construction cost for the facilities? They seems to be the same as without Marathon. Any help would be appreciated.

Re: [MOD 0.11.x - 0.12.x] Marathon

Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:55 pm
by aka13
imajor wrote:Hi Guys,

I want to start a new game with Marathon and RSO, and I don't want to waste several hours before I would realize that the mod is not active at all. So I downloaded 0.5.3 for the 0.12.3 version of the game, and in the mods menu I can see the Marathon mod there, I enabled it, but when I start a new game, I don't see any change. The costs of research (at least a few which I checked) is the same as in the vanilla game. Aren't those supposed to be higher? Or the construction cost for the facilities? They seems to be the same as without Marathon. Any help would be appreciated.
Take a look at circuits and other things. Wires, for example, cost 10 copper plates. A normal assembler costs 400 iron and 1300 copper. It adds up very quickly. With marathon 0.5.3 I have a production of 6k copper plates a minute, and barely made it to blue science packs with 90h.

Re: [MOD 0.11.x - 0.12.x] Marathon

Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:07 pm
by imajor
Thanks a lot. Now I realized what confused me, after toggling the mod on and off, I need to restart factorio, it is not enough to quit to main menu and start a new game.

Re: [MOD 0.11.x - 0.12.x] Marathon

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:25 am
by Afforess
aka13 wrote:Yes, indeed, I am 60h + in a game with RSO and Marathon, and I must say that this is brilliant.

1 Suggestion though - since vanilla medium and big electric poles use plates instead of wires most of the time they are easier and faster to craft then the small ones. I think it deserves some sort of a rebalance.
Thanks for the suggestion. There are a few other areas I know need a second pass at balance (laser turrets costs are a bit low compared to the new 0.12 costs in vanilla as well). I will add this to my list to review.

Re: [MOD 0.11.x - 0.12.x] Marathon

Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:38 am
by aka13
Afforess wrote:
aka13 wrote:Yes, indeed, I am 60h + in a game with RSO and Marathon, and I must say that this is brilliant.

1 Suggestion though - since vanilla medium and big electric poles use plates instead of wires most of the time they are easier and faster to craft then the small ones. I think it deserves some sort of a rebalance.
Thanks for the suggestion. There are a few other areas I know need a second pass at balance (laser turrets costs are a bit low compared to the new 0.12 costs in vanilla as well). I will add this to my list to review.
Red circuits are definately needing an increase in plastic consumption. maybe 50 plastic instead of 5, or maybe even more, but definately more then 5. I have never had problems with oil production this release.

Re: [MOD 0.11.x - 0.12.x] Marathon

Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:42 pm
by Afforess
aka13 wrote:
Afforess wrote:
aka13 wrote:Yes, indeed, I am 60h + in a game with RSO and Marathon, and I must say that this is brilliant.

1 Suggestion though - since vanilla medium and big electric poles use plates instead of wires most of the time they are easier and faster to craft then the small ones. I think it deserves some sort of a rebalance.
Thanks for the suggestion. There are a few other areas I know need a second pass at balance (laser turrets costs are a bit low compared to the new 0.12 costs in vanilla as well). I will add this to my list to review.
Red circuits are definately needing an increase in plastic consumption. maybe 50 plastic instead of 5, or maybe even more, but definately more then 5. I have never had problems with oil production this release.
50? I just checked the vanilla stats for the red circuit, and it says '2'. Marathon is designed to be a 5x-slower gameplay than vanilla, so 10 is probably the right amount.

However, I do think I know why you don't have trouble with oil. Oil is a time-based extraction process, and Marathon, being much slower, means it is easier to pump oil, as the 5x slowdown in production effectively is a 5x increase in time to extract oil. I will have to look into whether it is possible to slow down the rate of oil extraction. Does oil have a mining hardness? Maybe that can be used.

Re: [MOD 0.11.x - 0.12.x] Marathon

Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:55 am
by Ackos
More copper
More iron
More Miners
More green circuits
More factories
More coal
More Power
More green circuits!
More turrets
More bullets
more bullets!!!
More more more
research? Who the hell has time for research!
:shock:

I have an RSO map, with nests fairly close. It was a race to get turrets before the biters arrived in force (I have lost a couple maps because the biters arrived to soon). I won this time. I have pretty constant biter attacks on 3 sides, significant time and resources are going into base defense. This is fun. :lol:

Key mods:
RSO
Bobs Enemy's
Biter Evolution
No crafting challenge

Re: [MOD 0.11.x - 0.12.x] Marathon

Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 3:05 pm
by Ohz
Do all of you play Marathon + RSO in normal mode? I find it too slow, annoying to walk back and forth everywhere, I prefer to play in sandbox mode, without a character. You just fly around and build your factory and defend it.

The bad thing though is you can magically drop grenades over alien bases, and explore the map super fast without any vehicules :/

Re: [MOD 0.11.x - 0.12.x] Marathon

Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:29 pm
by Ackos
yes Ohz, normal mode for me. I like a slower game. Had some very agressive biter settings, so was anything but boring. :lol:

Re: [MOD 0.11.x - 0.12.x] Marathon

Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:32 pm
by Afforess
Ohz wrote:Do all of you play Marathon + RSO in normal mode? I find it too slow, annoying to walk back and forth everywhere, I prefer to play in sandbox mode, without a character. You just fly around and build your factory and defend it.

The bad thing though is you can magically drop grenades over alien bases, and explore the map super fast without any vehicules :/
I play Marathon + RSO in normal mode. The once concession I make to speed is that I use a mod that lets me control the game speed. (It's not the Time Button's mod, but similar... I can't remember the exact name, I need to check). Adjusting speed to 10x for a little bit after you got an initial setup and need to accumulate some supplies helps. I don't usually need to change the speed much though.

Concrete helps a lot.

Re: [MOD 0.11.x - 0.12.x] Marathon

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:38 pm
by KeepOnBuilding
I have forked Afforess' version of Marathon and made a few tweaks:

- balanced all the other recipes which use iron and copper plates (including power poles)
- balanced sulfur, sulfuric acid and plastic production. On my last play-through I needed only 2 sulfur, 2 sulfuric and 4 plastic plants… not this time.
- balanced stone.

And when I say "balanced", I mean whacked with a nerf hammer.

https://github.com/KeepOnDigging/FactorioMod-Marathon

I'm thinking solid fuel also needs to be hammered. What do you think about:
10 petroleum gas to 1 solid field (vanilla is 2)
5 light oil to 1 solid fuel (vanilla is 1)
5 heavy oil to 1 solid fuel (vanilla is 2)

Have fun, and
KeepOnBuilding!

p.s. my Github also has an updated SpeedButtons mod. It is like TimeButtons but without the bling.

Re: [MOD 0.11.x - 0.12.x] Marathon

Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:21 pm
by Afforess
KeepOnBuilding wrote:I have forked Afforess' version of Marathon and made a few tweaks:

- balanced all the other recipes which use iron and copper plates (including power poles)
- balanced sulfur, sulfuric acid and plastic production. On my last play-through I needed only 2 sulfur, 2 sulfuric and 4 plastic plants… not this time.
- balanced stone.

And when I say "balanced", I mean whacked with a nerf hammer.

https://github.com/KeepOnDigging/FactorioMod-Marathon
Changes look good. If you want, you can make a PR on Github with those 2 commits and I will merge them in and build a new release. I think the only thing I think has been missed was laser turrets (0.12x changed the laser turret recipe, right now, Marathon is balancing based on 0.11x recipes costs). I've been meaning to devote some time to this mod, but it seems you covered that for me. ;)
KeepOnBuilding wrote: I'm thinking solid fuel also needs to be hammered. What do you think about:
10 petroleum gas to 1 solid field (vanilla is 2)
5 light oil to 1 solid fuel (vanilla is 1)
5 heavy oil to 1 solid fuel (vanilla is 2)
I honestly am not 100% sure here, I never use solid fuel for anything. I know that Marathon cuts fuel output from standard fuels (coal/wood) by 50%, so maybe we use that as a guideline? Increasing the ingredients required by 2x should have the same effect. So:

5 Petrol to 1 Solid Fuel
2.5 Light Oil to 1 Solid Fuel
5 Heavy Oil to 1 Solid Fuel

Thoughts?