All in one 5/6/12 science for assembling machine 3

[DaveMcW]

I've build this design which is quite coinsuming on resources. The full build works but the factory does not. Already during construction I found that some entities (rafineries, chemical plants and one single assembly 3) will show red and prevent placing the blueprint over th ebuikld again once onew of those have already been placed. To place the blueprint again and continue constructions those entities need to be removed again first. After the full bluprint was built I realized that the problem with those entities is that they have no item set for assembly (well at least for chemical plant and assembly 3 units). I guess that the item is well set in the string/blueprint as this woiuld explain the units get red when placing the same blueprint over them again.

Now I am unsure where the problkem comes from, blue print string, string mod or factory itself, so I start here. Maybe because th estring was created in an old version ? I imported and built the string on 0.12.29 and moved now to 0.12.32. The blueprint still looks the same, so the conversion required for 0.12.32 went fine.

Researching all the recipes should solve your problems.

[vanatteveldt]

Since chemplants and assembly3 both have crafting speed 1.25 and no efficiency/speed modules are used, it's fairly simple to check. I'm sure OP has done this already, but it's a fun exercise

Whoops, I missed that this thread had multiple pages, somebody beat me to it by a couple of days I think. Anyway, calculations included for reference, and a big "well done" to the OP.

redundant calculations

12 science pack plants produce 1 science pack per second*, requiring 1 battery and 1 red circuit. The battery requires 5 chemplants, which together require 2 sulphuric acid/s, which can be produced by a single chemplant requiring 2 sulphur/s, which is the exact output of a single chemplant producing sulphur, requiring 3 petrol gas per second.

1 red circuit/s requires 8 plants which together require 2 plastic/2, which can be produced by a single chemplant requiring 3 petrol gas per second.

Refineries run at crafting speed 1, so if one refinery produces 1/4.5/5.5 per 5 actual seconds, 5 refineries produce 0.8/3.6/4.4 per our redefined 1/1.25 second.

The heavy oil is fully cracked to 0.6 light, but the resulting light oil cracking is a bottleneck, as 6 chemplants can only crack 3.6 light per second. So, the refinery will run at 4.2 / 3.6 = 86% capacity, producing after heavy oil cracking 3.6 light oil and 3.77 petroleum per second. The light oil is then cracked to yield 2.4 petroleum, giving in total just over 6 petroleum, as required.

Removing one refinery will output .64/2.88/3.52 per "second", which is cracked to 0/3.36/3.52 and then to 0/0/5.76, so the fifth refinery is indeed needed, but the 7th chemplant (to get the "ideal" ratio) isn't.

Crude consumption is the 8.6 crude per actual second (86% of the full input of 5 refineries).

So, let me join the chorus to say: nice setup .

* divided by 1.25, but let's just redefine second to keep it readable...

(PS why on earth didn't they just set the crafting speed of assembly3, chemplant, and refinery at 1, and just adjust the ass1 and ass2 times and the recipe durations...)

[Frightning]

~snip~
(PS why on earth didn't they just set the crafting speed of assembly3, chemplant, and refinery at 1, and just adjust the ass1 and ass2 times and the recipe durations...)

For Assem3, it's because the player character has crafting speed of 1, which is 4/5 what an Assem3 has. With the Chem Plants though, I can totally get on board with what you're saying since the player can't craft any of that stuff.

[vanatteveldt]

For Assem3, it's because the player character has crafting speed of 1, which is 4/5 what an Assem3 has. With the Chem Plants though, I can totally get on board with what you're saying since the player can't craft any of that stuff.

Well, it does make things simpler for calculations that chemplants and assembly plants have the same crafting speed, but it's weird that refineries and chemplants have different speeds.

Also, by the time you have assem3 plants I never really hand craft things anymore except one-offs like a power armor or fusion reactor, so I really don't care about the relative speed of hand crafting and assem3's. And if I setup an assem3 as a substitute hand-crafter I would put 4 speed modules in anyway...

[AutoMcD]

So I started a new game recently and decided to try building this.

Current state..


Closer shot. Using colored concrete mod obviously.

As you can see, still all lvl 2 assemblers and yellow slow conveyors.
I started with the red science and moved it along, upgrading along the way. By the time I had blue science up and running, first thing was to research advanced oil to get the refinery built properly. At several points along the way I had to shelf it and expand the resourcing operation to feed it. At this point oil is the holdup, and on my map it's looking like only around 10 oil sources within pipeline distance. The rest I'll have to search out a good area and run a train full of barrels out there. I'm fairly certain that I'll have to double my ore collection and smelting just to push this to capacity, and that's before going to lvl3 assemblers.

You'll notice a few small changes to the structure. MOST of the changes were to get rid of interleaved underground conveyors. In that I've been successful, there was room to move the blue science assemblers apart for another track. The only downside is one less set of inserters feeding the copper coil assemblers on the very right. But that part isn't up to full capacity anyway. Almost done clearing copper ore out of that corner.
Also the coal line for making plastic, I couldn't stick with the plan there so I'm just coming in from the bottom. Couldn't figure an elegant way of working out the interleaved conveyor without adding height.

What I'm thinking of doing is making a "low tech" blueprint of this. I'm not sure how much it would help since it was about 1/2 done before I had even researched blueprints, but it's still something. Let me know if you guys would be interested in this version when it's done.

I carried some of the conveyors off the top for some late game processor and module production. Similar to my other factories, this gobbles up all the circuits.. better off to make the late game totally separate production line.

My impression so far is that it's a little overkill. I will never be able to supply 5 refineries to capacity. It's also just a tiny bit TOO compact, just over the line where it becomes unnecessarily complex in a few spots.. I tend to reserve a few isles here and there to run through the area. increasing the footprint a few tiles to increase movement would be worth it to me. Roboport coverage also not good. Other than that, it converts resource to science as fast as I can feed it.

[AutoMcD]

Also I wanted to mention it was important to add storage tanks to carry the refinery until cracking was researched. Then I use them w circuit network to regulate the heavy oil cracking since I need lubricant.

[AutoMcD]

Since chemplants and assembly3 both have crafting speed 1.25 and no efficiency/speed modules are used, it's fairly simple to check. I'm sure OP has done this already, but it's a fun exercise

Whoops, I missed that this thread had multiple pages, somebody beat me to it by a couple of days I think. Anyway, calculations included for reference, and a big "well done" to the OP.

redundant calculations

12 science pack plants produce 1 science pack per second*, requiring 1 battery and 1 red circuit. The battery requires 5 chemplants, which together require 2 sulphuric acid/s, which can be produced by a single chemplant requiring 2 sulphur/s, which is the exact output of a single chemplant producing sulphur, requiring 3 petrol gas per second.

1 red circuit/s requires 8 plants which together require 2 plastic/2, which can be produced by a single chemplant requiring 3 petrol gas per second.

Refineries run at crafting speed 1, so if one refinery produces 1/4.5/5.5 per 5 actual seconds, 5 refineries produce 0.8/3.6/4.4 per our redefined 1/1.25 second.

The heavy oil is fully cracked to 0.6 light, but the resulting light oil cracking is a bottleneck, as 6 chemplants can only crack 3.6 light per second. So, the refinery will run at 4.2 / 3.6 = 86% capacity, producing after heavy oil cracking 3.6 light oil and 3.77 petroleum per second. The light oil is then cracked to yield 2.4 petroleum, giving in total just over 6 petroleum, as required.

Removing one refinery will output .64/2.88/3.52 per "second", which is cracked to 0/3.36/3.52 and then to 0/0/5.76, so the fifth refinery is indeed needed, but the 7th chemplant (to get the "ideal" ratio) isn't.

Crude consumption is the 8.6 crude per actual second (86% of the full input of 5 refineries).

So, let me join the chorus to say: nice setup .

* divided by 1.25, but let's just redefine second to keep it readable...

(PS why on earth didn't they just set the crafting speed of assembly3, chemplant, and refinery at 1, and just adjust the ass1 and ass2 times and the recipe durations...)

I am curious, if you were to reduce this entire blueprint by somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2, what would some ideal ratios for everything be? Like if this was a 3/4/8 instead of 5/6/12.

edit:
found this:
viewtopic.php?f=134&t=5576

I'll work this independently and try not to derail. thanks!

[AutoMcD]

Actually I will bug you guys again on one thing.
viewtopic.php?f=134&t=8977

According to this, you have way too many assemblers for the number of labs. Or just need to add more labs.
Have you found this to be balanced at full output compared to research consumption?

[uio]

I found one 'qualety of life' change to the build but i think it's a big one.
In my case i dont have fully ocupied iron plate belt, and it makes iron plates zoom past blue inserter, which makes one crucial factory not geting iron plates...
I'm talking of yelow inserter factory, for green sience thingy.
IF you change it to RED UNDERGROUND BELT, it's becames slow enought, for blue inserter to grab plates and production of green siance can continue, beside underfeeded belt. Plese add these, i dont think it will slow production if belt is fully loaded.

Odložišče02.jpg (66.07 KiB) Viewed 8979 times

[AutoMcD]

So in my factory thread where I have a 2/2/4 configuration, some numbers got ran, including numbers for your 5/6/12 arrangement.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25076

The conclusion is that a smoothly running 5/6/12 gives you 75 science packs per minute output.
If you research all of the lab efficiency upgrades, you can 100% supply 18 labs. If no upgrades researched then it'll feed 37 labs.

I think you should double the labs in your plan!

[Vexos]

I really like this design, but i don't like two colored undergrounds on the same line, then i made an alternative using the same space on the blue labs:

[Damion5050]

So in my factory thread where I have a 2/2/4 configuration, some numbers got ran, including numbers for your 5/6/12 arrangement.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25076

The conclusion is that a smoothly running 5/6/12 gives you 75 science packs per minute output.
If you research all of the lab efficiency upgrades, you can 100% supply 18 labs. If no upgrades researched then it'll feed 37 labs.

I think you should double the labs in your plan!

Does anyone have a blue print for this setup?

[Crumble]

I'm a noob so this may be a dumb question... How do you get the Science 3 packs to work when they need both an enginge and an electric mining drill? Cause I don't see it coming together =p

[Koub]

You're looking at a setup that was for up to 0.14 included.
Starting from 0.15, the science pack recipes changed radically after red and green. This setup doesn't make sense anymore.

What you're looking for is more like this : viewtopic.php?f=204&t=48266

Or you can try to solve the puzzle by yourself, instead of copying designs others have created .

[Crumble]

Thanks for a quick reply!

With a few more hours under my belt it's becoming more fun to try my own designs, but sometimes I gotta give into the preatty things others create as well and copy a blueprint.

[vanatteveldt]

Thanks for a quick reply!

With a few more hours under my belt it's becoming more fun to try my own designs, but sometimes I gotta give into the preatty things others create as well and copy a blueprint.

I think the sharing and improving designs on the forums is one of the most fun aspects of the game. Apparently the devs agree by putting the blueprint strings into vanilla . Also, like warfare, factorio has at least two levels of design challenge: the "tactical" micro-level of optimizing specific setups, and the more strategic or logistical macro level: making sure that everything needed to proceed towards the goal is at the right place at the right time.