Friday Facts #5
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:43 pm
Yet again, some news from the Factorio world before the weekend: https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-5
That's exactly what i hate on minecraft. "More features!!" - "But Notch, the light engine bugs around like hell, dark areas everywhere. Also redstone doesn't work properly for the past 4 releases, and not even partly in multiplayer." - "MORE FEATURES!!!11111oneoneeleven"We have always took the stance of fixing bugs first, adding features later. This is contrary to some very popular and successful indie games out there. So we naturally wondered whether it makes sense for us to keep doing this or whether we should try to move forward faster and build more features (there is plenty on the list).
+1 Posts/Bug reports without responses can imply that people (you amazing developers in the case of bug reports) do not care and just letting them know that you've noticed might/will keep people posting any other bugs they findNova wrote:[...]But of course, it's an alpha. Don't mind every small bug. Description not exactly right? Doesn't matter. Maybe you can just fix this kind of bugs only one time for every main version? But if you do this, please write that to every reported bug: "Thanks for the bug report, we will turn to this task sometime later." or whatever.[...]
That is actually a great and simple idea. But it never really occured to us:/ To me us the default is that we read everything in the bugs section and no answer means no work done at the moment. Will try to change it and communicate better with the bug reporters. Thanks.Nova wrote: But if you do this, please write that to every reported bug: "Thanks for the bug report, we will turn to this task sometime later." or whatever. Always answer to every bug report. "no anwser" looks bad and it's not clear if the bug is really a bug or just some misunderstanding.
I understand, we sort of take pride in having a stable game with as little bugs as possible (even though it is an alpha). It really hurts when I see that people are frustrated by some bugs. We brought it up because recently the bugfixing has been the main topic and slowly we slid to "we need to fix everything" mood. So the result is there should be a line between what must be fixed now and what can be postponed.Nova wrote:That's exactly what i hate on minecraft. "More features!!" - "But Notch, the light engine bugs around like hell, dark areas everywhere. Also redstone doesn't work properly for the past 4 releases, and not even partly in multiplayer."
Exactly. Though I am not sure we will be "updating" it multiple times in the future (maybe like once if there is a complete graphics overhaul:)). Actually we use this ability already at the moment. I can work on the trailer even though the new tiles graphics is not there yet.wrtlprnft wrote:So I guess if there is a graphics update or some minor feature is added to the game, all you have to do is re-record the tralier, and it will never be outdated again
Hehehe.. I've been reporting a few of these minor bugs lately. Sorry kovarex.slpwnd wrote:I understand, we sort of take pride in having a stable game with as little bugs as possible (even though it is an alpha). It really hurts when I see that people are frustrated by some bugs.
Exactly. Much better than just saying nothing. You can't differate between "yes, it's a bug" and "no, you are too stupid to understand our almighty and unfailing programming!!!!11111" without an anwser.ssilk wrote:But I recommend not to change the current behavior. If a bug is not answered, it is not in progress. The reason is simple: what can be said? Thank you, but this bug is not so important?
I agree. Actually back then when we had like 3 pages of bug reports (:)) we just forgot about some bugs. And only when the user bumped it we got back to it.Nova wrote:Exactly. Much better than just saying nothing. You can't differate between "yes, it's a bug" and "no, you are too stupid to understand our almighty and unfailing programming!!!!11111" without an anwser.
And how much work is it to write "Thanks for the bug report, we will turn to this task sometime later." under every new bug, if it won't be worked on in the next time?
How would we players estimate when certain bug would be fixed when even developers can't do that. Some bugs can be solved easily (fixed in next update) but others misght not (require large code overwrite and be finally done aftere several updates).ssilk wrote:Ok, that's of course too much, but I said this, because I think, that the players (we) need nothing more: just to estimate, when a bug is fixed.
I have tried several "bug tools" and I must say that I was mostly unsatisfied with them. Why?ssilk wrote:Eventually you should think about a simple (!) bug-tool; I would say Mantis can handle that very well.
Our goal is to have so few unsolved bugs to not have the need for categoriesSilverWarior wrote: So I would say stick with forum and if necessary split the bug report section into seperate subsection to filter the bugs a bit. But don't forget to leve tha "unsorted" section to be used when pepole don't know into which section the bug they are reporting fits.
By looking. He sees, that there are no more important bugs before, so he can estimate, that "his" must be one of the next.SilverWarior wrote: How would we players estimate when certain bug would be fixed when even developers can't do that. Some bugs can be solved easily (fixed in next update) but others misght not (require large code overwrite and be finally done aftere several updates).
As said, priorizing bugs is in bigger projects not the task of the developer. When a project has - let's say - more than 3 devs, there must be someone, which - in the long term - is the product owner. And to be product owner doesn't mean to be dev. That's two different roles, because the product owner has a total different focus.I have tried several "bug tools" and I must say that I was mostly unsatisfied with them. Why?
Most bug tols have bug lists whose entries folow nex teplate: bug/isue nr. xxxxx short name of the bug givven by the person repoting it.
In most cases this means it is not so easy to quickly find similar or same bug without opening each one of them. So same usually same bugs gets reported miltiple times.
So imagine when you as a developer go and fix some bug, makr certain bug report as fixed, but later you find another report for the bug you have suposingly fixed. Now you don't know if the bug might have been repoted multiple times, or your fix just didn't work. So you will go and recheck to see if the bug still exists. In the end this is a real motivation killer.
I know that. But I never said, that we as the users must use a bug reporting tool. I think nothing should be changed now for us.Another problem with bug tools is that they split bug reports into multiple areas (graphics, sound, AI, etc.). While for us who nows some things about how games are made it isn't difficult to put the bug in right area. But for pepole who have no knowledge on game structure puting bug report into corect area can be a nightmare. So in most cases such pepole simply say screw that I won't even report that since I don't know where to put it. The fact is that most bug tols are suitable to be used by programers only and not by the general population.
But the forums are much more user friendly for general populatiuon.
+1So I would say stick with forum and if necessary split the bug report section into seperate subsection to filter the bugs a bit. But don't forget to leve tha "unsorted" section to be used when pepole don't know into which section the bug they are reporting fits.
We will need quite some help soon:) We need to go through the Steam Greenlight process. That is a mechanism where the community votes on the games they would like to see on the Steam. So we introduce our game and if the steam community is interested the Valve might contact us about publishing Factorio on the Steam.Psycho0124 wrote:By the way, what can we do to help get Factorio on steam?