Factorio Forums

Khagan wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:47 am

The 'primary' poll to find the popular choices for quality level names seems to have stabilised (after a late run from 'Basic' to overtake 'Normal' for the first level). So here is a run-off.

Hey, should you maybe update the other poll pointing people here? (Can polls be "closed"?)

FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 21, 2024 10:41 am

Hey, should you maybe update the other poll pointing people here? (Can polls be "closed"?)

Good idea. I've added a post on the other thread pointing to this one. I don't think there is any particular need to 'close' the old one though.

I'm going to assume that almost everyone that voted Q1-Q5 are actually fine with the "Legendary" names since Q1-Q5 will be used and understood universally in conversation regardless of what they are called in game. No one actually needs the devs to name the quality levels that to be able to communicate those names. And a vote for Q1-Q5 doesn't really indicate a strong need for thematic names.

So combining Legendary + Q votes, the new names are actually not even that popular with a minority vote, in this thread where only the most vocal proponents gather. Doesn't seem like the names are such a big deal.

Koub wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:02 am

Khagan wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 13, 2024 1:25 am

(My own opinion is that even 'S', let alone 'SS' or 'SSS', is symptomatic of unplanned extensions to a range. You designed a range with, say, 'A' to 'D', and then find later that you need a higher grade than 'A', so have to improvise. Adding such things in at the start is pointless.)

You don't watch enough animes I guess

Or he does. That's exactly the problem animes always run into and have to improvise.

Tertius wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:24 pm

This strange "S" grade system cannot be invented by engineers or technical orientated people, because it isn't following some intuitive scientific order of increasing importance or significance. Instead, it's arbitrary. There is no reason why an "S" is better than an "A", and "SS" better than "S". That's completely arbitrary and made up. And that's not something we should have in Factorio, because Factorio is something scientific and mathematical. Arbitrary rules have no place here.

well, well, well...


As well as:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_grading_in_Japan
It is literally Japanese grading system

And also a popular recently wave of "tier list" things, prevalent not only in anime but in many other subcultures:
https://i.imgur.com/17ZXcJw.png

Games using this would include:
Devil May Cry, Yakuza, Metal Gear Solid, games by Capcom, Osu! and others

Not C-B-A-S-SS, but a good example that engineers do indeed come up with weird scales like these with their A+, A++ It is only natural: first you assume that "A" is the best you can do, but then standards change and suddenly your "A" is just mediocre. So you either way want a scale that can be extended both ways. For example what would happen if someone wrote a mod that either adds 2 worse tiers (below "Common") and 2 best tiers (above... "Legendary"?). The letter scale seems to be the most flexible one, because you can go below D, E, F... and above A you can use either A+ with number of "+" signs or a number of repetition of "S" letters.

The letter "S" is most probably an anglicization in japanese from the "Exceptional" (S is the most vocal and accented letter in that word given how they pronounce it)

As for Q1-Q5 names, I still don't know if Q1 is the best or the worst on that spectrum

Qon wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:38 am

I'm going to assume that almost everyone that voted Q1-Q5 are actually fine with the "Legendary" names

I'm not sure that'd be a correct assumption.

Obviously I can only speak for myself, but I would prefer straight numbering over words that many won't remember or even use. I realize there are some things in game where their tiers do use word labels (belts, inserters), but there are also some things that use numbers (assemblers, all of the different modules) so it's not like it'd be unprecedented.

That being said, if the devs (or community) were dead set against numbers, I'd prefer the proposed names from the other thread (except maybe have the Q1 level be without a name/label) over the rpg names they have now. I'd actually even be more ok with a letter grade system (that doesn't do stupid S/SS/SSS or A/A+/A++, etc) than the rpg names.

To summarize, my order of preference is: straight numbering > community proposed names > letter grade > dev proposed names.

Qon wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 22, 2024 9:38 am

I'm going to assume that almost everyone that voted Q1-Q5 are actually fine with the "Legendary" names since Q1-Q5 will be used and understood universally in conversation regardless of what they are called in game. No one actually needs the devs to name the quality levels that to be able to communicate those names. And a vote for Q1-Q5 doesn't really indicate a strong need for thematic names.

So combining Legendary + Q votes, the new names are actually not even that popular with a minority vote, in this thread where only the most vocal proponents gather. Doesn't seem like the names are such a big deal.

Currently, I am okay with using Q1-Q5 for communication's sake. I am not cool with the Wube 'canonical' names and would use the community-picked names instead.


It is not that much of a farfetched situation where most people who voted for Q1-Q5 would also not want to use the Wube 'canonical' names or community-picked names equally.

Your suggestion would deprive the opinion of both groups just because you were unhappy with the community voting pattern.


Anyone currently 'happy' or 'content' with Wube's 'canonical' names would be the only group who would take a liking to your suggestion, and they are a minority the way polls are going.

Tooster wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 22, 2024 1:06 pm

As for Q1-Q5 names, I still don't know if Q1 is the best or the worst on that spectrum

Maybe there should be some campain where the arguments for each list could be heard before people vote
Q5 is obvisously better than Q4 for me, because 5>4 ! but really for me the idea was to have the number in the name also be the number of dots representing the quality in game. So you could also say "Q0" to talk about the moment in game where you haven't unlocked the quality research. And you would know just by seeing it if it's a Q3 or a Q4 without having to learn the words in case.

Tooster wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 22, 2024 1:06 pm

As for Q1-Q5 names, I still don't know if Q1 is the best or the worst on that spectrum

mmmPI wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 22, 2024 3:49 pm

Maybe there should be some campain where the arguments for each list could be heard before people vote
Q5 is obvisously better than Q4 for me, because 5>4 ! but really for me the idea was to have the number in the name also be the number of dots representing the quality in game. So you could also say "Q0" to talk about the moment in game where you haven't unlocked the quality research. And you would know just by seeing it if it's a Q3 or a Q4 without having to learn the words in case.

The answer to this is 1 is "lowest"/"worst", 5 is "highest"/"best".

Why? Because this is the same logic already employed in the game with Assemblers and Modules. If you used a new system, it would just be confusing.

FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 22, 2024 3:52 pm

Why? Because this is the same logic already employed in the game with Assemblers and Modules. If you used a new system, it would just be confusing.

There is the visual information ! that's what i meant

mmmPI wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 22, 2024 4:10 pm

FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 22, 2024 3:52 pm

Why? Because this is the same logic already employed in the game with Assemblers and Modules. If you used a new system, it would just be confusing.

q4.png
q2.png

There is the visual information ! that's what i meant

Ah, yeah, missed where you actually mentioned the dots. I saw the part about a campaign to discuss before voting.

That said, as to the Q0/Q1 bit, while they do have a dot for the "normal" quality, they don't appear to ever actually use it. If you check out some of the vids from the Quality FFF, the items that get placed on belts with normal quality don't have an icon, while the ones being placed right next to them with a higher quality tier do have the icons. So I don't think this distinction (Q0 before quality is unlocked, Q1 after) is needed.

I voted for Q1-Q5 simply because easy to understand at one look. That's it.