Running multiple electric networks via single power pole

[Harkonnen604]

With power switch there are now options to start/stop steam based on accumulator charge level. Next thing to think about is to shut down the whole factory when accumulators are just 25% so that lasers get all remaining electricity.

There are two problems with this setup. First, we need some convenient way to see if networks are indeed distinct, not merged by some stray pole (that's coloring I spoke about in sister thread viewtopic.php?f=6&t=28648). Anoter problem with having distinct electric network for lasers is outposts - you'll have to drag a separate line of power poles just for turrets and be very careful that they don't merge with the main line.

Proposal - some new type of wire that can be put together with copper wire on power poles that serves as distinct electric network conductor that runs through same poles + some "transformer" building that merges copper and that new (steel?) wire type networks on its ends.

[ssilk]

distinct electric network conductor that runs through same poles + some "transformer" building that merges copper and that new (steel?) wire type networks on its ends.

In reality the switch is placed, where you want to switch something and a thin (green/red) wire controls that switch. Much cheaper. Much easier.

[Harkonnen604]

What I want is a separate power line for laser turrets, including turrets at outposts. Well, it can be hacked by placing single accumulator at each outpost to perform that measurement locally since accumulator with line up with other accumulators in the network. Inconvenience of such solution is that adjusting that value from 25% to 15% or 30% will require visiting every outpost and tweaking that condition.

[ssilk]

Hm. Maybe I'm wrong.

First I would never stop my lasers. I would stop production instead.

Second: I still think it is more or less the same effort:
Build a "switched iron wire" and connect all to this
vs.
build a green wire and connect all devices over switches, that are controlled by that wire.
OK. Sounds more complicated.

[MeduSalem]

It actually makes sense in certain cases.


For example I have at least 3 distinctive electric networks...

• Power generation... Here is everything that is necessary to keep power production alive (Oil Wells+Oil Industry for Solid fuel, Coal Miners, fuel delivery stuff etc)
• Defense grid... Here is everything that is necessary for keeping defense up (Turrets, ammo production and delivery, Roboports for repairs etc)
• Factory... basically everything that isn't necessary to survive and which can be shut down during power shortage

Now imagine the Pole/Wire clutter I have to lead through the entire map because I need all of these three everywhere.

Further Explanation why I chose to have the 3 networks

Obviously I can't connect all of these things to the same network or otherwise it will end in a very possible power-death spiral, because how am I supposed to decide on the fly how much power gets distributed between Power generation and Defense Grid and Factory?

There is currently no practical way to dynamically decide how much power flows where. I thought that the power switch would eventually work like a transformator too... meaning that it specifies how much energy is able to flow over the connection in a range from 0% to 100%, but nope. It's only on/off.

Back in 0.12 I already abused Accumulators as Transformator gates by keeping them in 2 distinctive networks at once... regulating energy flow in a way that only surplus energy ends up in a target electric network... but with high consumptions the accumulator array steadily grows bigger and bigger and bigger because of how input/output flow of accumulators is very limited, so I abandoned the approach in favor of power switches as soon as 0.13 hit the shores.

So the only practical choice is to have seperated networks and with that I have to take on the tedious double/triple pole placement and manual re-wiring of pretty much every pole whenever two or more seperate networks are close together.

I may have some ideas how to reduce the clutter to one electric network to get some of the aspects under control but that's quite an effort on circuit network stuff.

On a side note I would also like to express that I like the thought of having individual electrical networks because then it's much easier to see WHAT might be causing problems. A huge list of every possible energy draining item is very ugly for maintanence and error seeking.

Basically I understand why Harkonnen604 wants to run one pole with a single huge wire containing multiple sub wires and only split of subnetworks where you want to branch off the mainline with a transformator. But I don't know if enough people would find it useful to have such a feature. I would use it, but I don't speak for the majority.

[ssilk]

Now imagine the Pole/Wire clutter I have to lead through the entire map because I need all of these three everywhere.

Ok, understood.

I need to say: I don't like to wire so much. Wiring is fun for circuits, but not for big distances.

So I think I have a better idea: Imagine how easy it would be, if we have some kind of "global radio signal" (must be researched of cause), that has channels and you use the channel "P" (for power - or any other of the 26 channels) to transmit the information to the places, where you need it.
Until we don't have that we can use circuits instead. When you have it, just remove them and replace the signal source in the switches with the new radio signal.

How useful/elegant would that be, compared to this suggestion?

[Harkonnen604]

There can be yet another solution - whenever power pole is placed it automatically gets connected with green/red wire to the pole it got automatically connected with copper wire if that pole had any green/red wires as well. This way you may create lengthy circuit wiring as easily as with electricity. This algo can be limited to big poles only.

[mattj256]

whenever power pole is placed it automatically gets connected with green/red wire to the pole it got automatically connected with copper wire if that pole had any green/red wires as well.

The autowire mod already does that:
viewtopic.php?f=92&t=14986

Unfortunately this mod hasn't been updated yet for Factorio 0.13.

[Harkonnen604]

btw, there is another case when separate outpost electric network is useful - if you go without solar, you'd want to keep coal drills prioritized by diverting entire factory power to them during outages (like with laser turrets) to avoid death spiral.

[mattj256]

btw, there is another case when separate outpost electric network is useful - if you go without solar, you'd want to keep coal drills prioritized by diverting entire factory power to them during outages (like with laser turrets) to avoid death spiral.

Using current tools you can stockpile the coal or build steam engines very close to the coal deposit. If you create steam engines near the coal deposit it's easy to set up an isolated electric network.

You can also use this trick for nonessential parts of your factory:
https://wiki.factorio.com/index.php?tit ... r_Networks

Hmm. If your power generation is far from your outpost AND you can't move power generation close to the outpost AND you can't build solar panels AND you can't stockpile the coal AND you can't increase power generation AND you're dependent on the coal....

My first choice would be to use the accumulator trick that I linked to.

My second choice would be to use the circuit network. If you can set each condition locally you can use many small circuit networks. Otherwise you'll need to run miles of red wire. The FARL mod can help with this. Ssilk's suggestion would make this easier as well.

Setting up multiple overlapping isolated electric networks seems like a huge pain. The game doesn't currently have good support for this, and I don't think it makes sense to spend a lot of development effort on this. There isn't enough demand for it, and there are other ways to solve this problem without touching the electric network.

If what I said isn't helpful please post a screenshot and blueprint string of a small setup that's hard to manage with existing tools.

[bobucles]

I don't get it. Can't you already run custom built power networks by connecting copper lines however you please?

[Harkonnen604]

You can also use this trick for nonessential parts of your factory:
https://wiki.factorio.com/index.php?tit ... r_Networks

Nice stuff! didn't know about it. Thanks

I don't get it. Can't you already run custom built power networks by connecting copper lines however you please?

The problem is with outposts. If you want to deliver 3 distinct electric networks to the outpost, you have drag 3 sets of poles and if they are placed close to each other, you'll have to manually rewire everything. It's tedious, hence my suggestion to combine several electric networks on single pole.

BTW, this can be thought about in terms of phases like A,B,C. It's actually how many houses are powered each apartment sitting on its own phase. That's why you frequently see 4 cords arriving at a house, esp. in rural area.

[bobucles]

Why does an outpost need three fully independent power supplies? Something strange is happening here, something you probably could have done with a single electric network and simple combinators to connect or disconnect as needed.

[mattj256]

Why does an outpost need three fully independent power supplies? Something strange is happening here, something you probably could have done with a single electric network and simple combinators to connect or disconnect as needed.

Yes, that's what I was trying to say. Even if you have to send red wire and push signals over the wire, that's still easier than building and maintaining three different overlapping distinct electric networks.

[bobucles]

There is no easy way to handle multiple networks like that. I don't think blueprints can accept such explicit wiring, and there's no way to color code a pole for A/B/C networks.

[Harkonnen604]

1. Every copper wire can hold all A/B/C phases by default until explicitly split by some kind of AC-DC-phase-splitter/transformer building.

2. I agree that getting copper wire along with red wire (and ABC signals on it) is easier anyway and renders my proposal useless

[Xeteth]

Unless I am reading this wrong you can already do what you're after, but you have to approach the problem in a different manner.

Instead of having multiple networks running along a mainline just have a single network and when it reaches the outpost you branch it off there using power switches into your different networks. You can then run a red/green wire down the mainline and use the circuit network to turn on/off whatever you want.

I use this method to control up to 40 outposts from a central location in my base.