Steel Furnaces

[ScreamingDoom]

I've noticed that Steel Furnaces are rarely used; they just aren't good enough to bother the expense (so much iron!) and redesign. As a result, Steel Furnaces are usually skipped until Electric Furnaces are available.

I propose a major change to the way they work. Instead of merely being much more expensive and slightly faster Stone Furnaces, replace Steel Furnaces with Alloy Furnaces.

Alloy Furnaces, as the name implies, allow the creation of alloys. The first alloy available would, of course, be steel -- an alloy of iron and carbon.

That is, in addition to how steel is currently made (with five iron plates being smelted into one steel), an Alloy Furnace would instead accept two inputs: an iron plate and a chunk of coal. The alternate recipe would do much to make the currently mostly-useless Steel Furnace a valuable item; iron is always a chokepoint in production, so the extra efficiency would probably make it worth it to use them, especially as the need for steel expands. In addition, it provides a resource sink for coal in the mid-late game where the only other one currently is plastic.

Additional alloys could be added later to help expand the usefulness of the Alloy Furnance (Reinforced Stone Walls, maybe?). An additional research item could be added to allow Electric Alloy Furnaces.

[BurnHard]

What do you mean, I think they are great value? They are great to replace the old furnaces, because both of them are 2x2, you don't need to redesign anything (electric furnaces are 3x3, yes, but only them). They smelt faster and thus need less coal for producing one plate.

[haunted_1]

I use them for copper until late game. I kinda hate redesigning my smelting setup, so I postpone it by installing steel furnance (they are actually as fast as the electric furnances just without the slots).

But still I kinda like the idea.

[ScreamingDoom]

What do you mean, I think they are great value?

Really? You don't just wait until Electric Furnaces?

They are great to replace the old furnaces, because both of them are 2x2, you don't need to redesign anything (electric furnaces are 3x3, yes, but only them).

You're right, for some reason I thought they were bigger.

They smelt faster and thus need less coal for producing one plate.

They do smelt faster, but the resources required to make one are collossal. In addition, coal is rarely a resource problem. Considering Electric Furnaces are effectively right around the research corner -- which, in turn, immediately make all coal-burning furnaces completely obsolete -- those resources would be better spent elsewhere. Increasing the number of Stone Furnaces is a better option if you need more production.

A Steel Furnace takes 8 Steel and 10 Stone Brick. The brick may or may not be a problem (depending on how agressive the biters are -- those bricks may be put to better use being turned into walls), but the steel definitely is. 8 Steel is 40 Iron! For one furnace! A furnace that is going to be obsolete very shortly! The additional smelting speed is nice, but unless you spawn near a pretty hefty iron deposit, I can't imagine it's worth upgrading before getting Electric Furnaces. They are just too expensive with too short a lifecycle for what they give.

That said, this was based on a standard freeplay game. If one plays with richer iron or poorer coal deposits, they may find use there.

I use them for copper until late game. I kinda hate redesigning my smelting setup, so I postpone it by installing steel furnance (they are actually as fast as the electric furnances just without the slots).

Really? Interesting. Why do you bother replacing the Stone Furnaces at all, may I ask? Is the extra smelting speed needed to feed your factories?

[haunted_1]

Really? Interesting. Why do you bother replacing the Stone Furnaces at all, may I ask? Is the extra smelting speed needed to feed your factories?

Is that a tricky question? If not, well, the speed is indeed needed when i research f.e. . Afaik its twice as fast.

I'm gonna show you my current 10h game http://puu.sh/7fq4z.jpg

I'm currently using effectivity modules tier 1 on the iron electric furnance so the speed is the same.

[sparr]

I've noticed that Steel Furnaces are rarely used; they just aren't good enough to bother the expense (so much iron!) and redesign. As a result, Steel Furnaces are usually skipped until Electric Furnaces are available. ... Instead of merely being much more expensive and slightly faster Stone Furnaces, replace Steel Furnaces with Alloy Furnaces.

I've never used electric furnaces for my main smelting factory, only in specific smaller factories such as for steel in my science factory. What "redesign" are you referring to? They are a drop-in replacement for stone furnaces. And they are twice as fast, which is more than slightly faster.

[syneris]

Electric furnaces need advanced circuits, which need plastic, which needs oil. They are also larger, being 3x3 instead of 2x2, so you'll likely need to rebuild your smelting layout. They use electricity (obviously) which requires you to invest in a larger power capacity.

Steel furnaces are the same size as stone, so you can simply replace your existing design. They are twice as fast while having the same energy requirement. This means steel furnaces use half as much coal as stone (per unit smelted).

[Zourin]

generally, Steel (*corrected*) furnaces have more advantages than disadvantages.

• Optimal Speed - Processes just as fast as Electric Furnaces
• Compact - Fits in a 2x2 space, and is a direct upgrade from stone furnaces. Smelt more ore for less real estate.
• Fuel Eater - Something to do with the oogles of solid fuel produced from refineries
• Fuel Efficient - Steel Furnaces are more fuel-efficient than routing the fuel through boilers to power unmodded Electric Furnaces, due to the boilers' 0.5 penalty on power production.
• No Electrical Consumption - Runs off fuel, rather than the power grid
• Pollution - They produce an unmitigated amount of pollution while running. Smelting operations can produce a lot of it.
• Power Inefficient - Effectivity modded Electric Furnaces are significantly more fuel efficient and produce less pollution

So the turnover point isn't electric furnaces, but effectivity modules. Electric furnaces are also handy for converting iron plates into steel for a factory process, like bluepacks, closer to the manufacturing assembly, rather than making steel directly at the factory.

[BurnHard]

Really? You don't just wait until Electric Furnaces?

I use them till late midgame, if not till endgame. Electric furnaces are very expensive, need more space and only pay off energy-wise if you use modules a lot.

[LoSboccacc]

electric furnaces need to get all the way to plastic

if you play for speed and you ramp up metal and steel consumption as fast as possible, you need the faster furnaces

keeping them on coal require less space, and give less strain on the electric network

I usually put electric furnaces on distant mining fields, as bringing coal there is inefficient, and don't bother changing in the main base until I have fully automated solar panels,
cleared up an huge spot for them and have the productivity and efficiency module

especially with modules they have a huge edge over steel furnaces - before, so so.

[Darthlawsuit]

I use steel furnaces most of the game, minus the start.

[andzoak]

I like current furnaces system. Even if steel furnaces are used only shortly they are significant step between stone and electric furnaces. Maybe electric furnaces should be tier 3 technology to increase lifetime of steel furnaces?

[Darthlawsuit]

I like current furnaces system. Even if steel furnaces are used only shortly they are significant step between stone and electric furnaces. Maybe electric furnaces should be tier 3 technology to increase lifetime of steel furnaces?

Don't even use electric furnaces myself. I only use furnaces that require coal as you need something to control the carbon content.

[Sir Nick]

I mostly use electric furnaces and almost always skip steels. I tend to aggregate my smelting in small clusters, so that I have a large output without having to use fast belts, and the added hassle of coal routing completely dissuades me from using anything other that electrics.

[ssilk]

For me it is not the hassle with coal, but the throughput and there the needed space. I skip steel furnaces and rebuild everything new, so that the whole smelting is an own LogNet.

[kovarex]

I'm glad that every furnace has it's different use and meaning in the progress. I also use the steel furnaces most of the time so I don't have to upgrade the power production so much.
I just prefer to use the electric furnace for steel production directly from iron ore, because the setup is much more easier that way.

[ssilk]

Just for those, who can't follow: you insert the iron plates into the same "circle", as the iron ore and take out the finished steel?

[slpwnd]

The question is whether the electric furnaces should depend on the oil industry (they use advanced circuits now) or not ...

[ssilk]

Well, my thought: advanced circuits? This is just an electrical heating, not much more. It should need lots of copper cable, lots of steel, stone, burners... I think the difference between steel furnace and electrical furnace is also a decision about how you want to play. And in that light both should be on nearly the same level.

Well, the more advanced version of el. furnace might have advanced circuits for steering the water-cooling of the furnace. (Produces pre-heated water and the furnace will break down, when it gets too hot. )

[Sir Nick]

Removing oil dependency immediately opens up a "clean" path: solars are researcheable with just greens and reds, electric furnaces too. If they do not need oil, than a large chunk of pollution in the form of steel furnaces burning coal to produce everything needed for oil industry just goes away. IMO, this is a sensible tradeoff. (And I also like the ability to speedrush electrics )